GeoNames Forum

Permskaya Oblast' should be in fact be called as Permskiy Kray. As far as I can see both names with different geonameId do exist. They mean the same but the official name is Permskiy Kray.

So we will to have to delete one with fewer updates :
http://www.geonames.org/6607270/permskiy-kray.html

The other one http://www.geonames.org/511180/permskaya-oblast.html has some alternate names "Molotov Oblast". Is this a correct alterate names or is this something else?

Cheers

Marc

Admin wrote:

The other one http://www.geonames.org/511180/permskaya-oblast.html has some alternate names "Molotov Oblast". Is this a correct alterate names or is this something else?

Well, the reality is the center city of Permskiy Krai is Perm. It was Perm before 1940 and it is Perm now. But between 1940 and 1957 this city was renamed to Molotov (Molotov was one of the Soviet politicians in time of Stalin). Stalin died in 1953, so 4 years later the name of Perm was recovered. So, Molotov Oblast' is an old name. If I was you I would leave it, just for history.

Now, about oblast' and kray. Oblast' in size is smaller than Kray. But on December 1st, 2005 Permskaya Oblast' and Komi-Permyatskiy AO (avtonomny' okrug) were joined together. That's the history of how Permskiy Kray appeared. So, in fact you may try to put Permskaya Oblast' and Komi-Permyatskiy AO (avtonomny' okrug) as alternative names to Permskiy Kray.

I hope that will help.

Cheers,
Mike

Hi Marc,

When do you plan to update the webservices with the newly added Russian translations?

For example, http://ws.geonames.org/hierarchy?geonameId=6607270&lang=ru still gives Permskiy Kray instead of Пермский край...

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike

The server hosting the hierarchy server was running out of sync with the www server. There was a problem with the message service on this server that should automatically sync the servers in the GeoNames cluster. I have just copied the database from the www server and reset the message service. Future edites should immediately be visible on all servers.

Cheers

Marc

Hey Marc,

Happy New Year!! And I wish you even more success with your great web service!!!

One more recent update regarding administration divisions...

On January 1st, 2008 two Russian regions were combined:

GeoNameId : 2013895 + GeoNameId : 2023468 = GeoNameId : 2023468

what means:

Ust'-Ordynskiy Buryatskiy Avtonomnyy Okrug + Irkutskaya Oblast' = Irkutskaya Oblast'

Perhaps you should put "Ust'-Ordynskiy Buryatskiy Avtonomnyy Okrug" and all related alternative names as alternative names to "Irkutskaya Oblast'".

Cheers,
Mike

P.S. Article (in Russian): http://www.newsru.com/russia/02jan2008/newirkutoblast.html

And one more bug:

http://ws.geonames.org/hierarchy?geonameId=2050915

and

http://ws.geonames.org/hierarchy?geonameId=2013895

represent the same region, as you are already aware of, since Jan 1st, they all are just one division, i.e. Irkutskaya Oblast'.

Hi Marc,

Some more interesting discoveries I came across with...

The query http://ws.geonames.org/children?geonameId=2017370 should return the list of administrative regions of Russia. And it actually does but with some mistakes:

<geoname>
<name>Moskva</name>
<lat>55.7616667</lat>
<lng>37.6066667</lng>
<geonameId>524894</geonameId>

Moskva means Moscow. I think this is incorrect as there should be only regions retrieved, not cities.

For example:

<geoname>
<name>Moskovskaya Oblast’</name>
<lat>55.7563889</lat>
<lng>37.6283333</lng>
<geonameId>524925</geonameId>

Moskovskaya Oblast’ means the region of Moscow, i.e. area around Moscow. So Moskovskaya Oblast’ can be on the list but Moskva can not.

The same issue is for:

<geoname>
<name>Sankt-Peterburg</name>
<lat>59.9166667</lat>
<lng>30.25</lng>
<geonameId>536203</geonameId>

Sankt-Peterburg = Saint-Petersburg is a city, not a region.

Now, Permskaya Oblast' should be removed as this is a duplicate to Permskiy Kray which is an official name. I have already "moved" the alternative names from oblast' to kray.

<geoname>
<name>Ust'-Ordynskiy Buryatskiy Avtonomnyy Okrug</name>
<lat>53.3333333</lat>
<lng>104.0</lng>
<geonameId>2013895</geonameId>

AND

<geoname>
<name>Respublika Buryatiya</name>
<lat>53.0</lat>
<lng>109.0</lng>
<geonameId>2050915</geonameId>

AND

<geoname>
<name>Irkutskaya Oblast'</name>
<lat>56.0</lat>
<lng>106.0</lng>
<geonameId>2023468</geonameId>

should be merged into Irkutskaya Oblast'.

However, I can not supply you with the new lat/long (they certainly will be extended) for the new region... I assume the coordinates will be something like: lat: 53.0, long:109

Hope that helps..

Cheers,
Mike

Hi Mike

A lot of work in the new year ...

The children service only returns ADM1, but there is a ADM1 called 'Moskau' in our database :
http://www.geonames.org/524894/moskva.html

The same ADM1 exists in both FIPS and ISO codes :
http://www.geonames.org/RU/administrative-division-russia.html

Could this be a similiar problem like the one we have with Hungary
http://forum.geonames.org/gforum/posts/list/640.page ?

Cheers

Marc

marc wrote:

Hi Mike

A lot of work in the new year ...

The children service only returns ADM1, but there is a ADM1 called 'Moskau' in our database :
http://www.geonames.org/524894/moskva.html

The same ADM1 exists in both FIPS and ISO codes :
http://www.geonames.org/RU/administrative-division-russia.html

Could this be a similiar problem like the one we have with Hungary
http://forum.geonames.org/gforum/posts/list/640.page ?

Cheers

Marc

Hello Marc,

It's a bit difficult for me to support or not comments regarding Hungary. But it might be the same problem or similar one.

Anyhow: Russia » Moskva » no admin2 » no admin2 -- is not really correct hierarchy. Instead it should be: Russia » Moskovskaya Oblast'
» Moskva

Moskva, or Moscow or Moskou, is the city-capital of Russia. However, nowadays it does include some towns around Moscow (the same story as with London in the UK), like Khimki or Krukovo. Nevertheless, I would like to get stuff, like Moskva and Moskovskaya Oblast', not appearing on the same list as it makes no sense as Moskva is a part of Moskovskaya Oblast' and the city-centre of it. The same situation concerns St.-Petersburg.

Now I am starting to see how big is the mess with administrative divisions in the database...

Unfortunately, lots of administrative divisions either do not represent an administrative division (especially of a 1st grade) or are just named after their capitals, though the hyperlink brings to the real administrative division...

Example from the http://www.geonames.org/RU/administrative-division-russia.html:

Look at 51 or 52 or 53. You will see the names Novgorod/Velikiy Novgorod, Nizhny Novgorod/Nizhniy Novgorod, Novosibirsk/Novosibirsk. Those names actually are incorrect because they do represent the names of the cities but not the names of divisions ("oblast'"). However, if you click one of the links you will be trasferred to the right (!) page containing information about the division.

On the same list with administrative divisions you also have positions 47 (Moscow as Province) and 48 (Moscow as City) and 69 (St.-Petersburg). 48 and 42 (Leningrad) should be on the list but 48 and 69 should not.

Leningrad, in fact Leningradskaya Oblast', is an administrative division where St.-Petersburg (during 192x-1991 it was called Leningrad) is just a city or capital of Leningradskaya Oblast'.

I can help you with all this stuff as I will need this data in the project I am working on now. But I would like to use the CORRECT data.

Cheers,
Mike

P.S. Can I rename Russian administrative divisions to make life easier?

Hello,

I use 'search' method API:http://api.geonames.org/search?lang=ru&name_startsWith=<city_name>&username=brainy&featureClass=P&style=FULL

and I think, I found a bug:
when I set <city_name> to 'Санкт П' (http://api.geonames.org/search?lang=ru&name_startsWith=%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D1%82%20%D0%9F&username=brainy&featureClass=P&style=FULL), I got well results, but when I set <city_name> to 'Санкт Петербург' (http://api.geonames.org/search?lang=ru&name_startsWith=%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D1%82%20%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B1%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3&username=brainy&featureClass=P&style=FULL) I got nothing.

Please, can you check it.

Best regards,
Ivan

Hi Ivan

You are right there was an issue with 'Санкт'. It has been fixed.
Thanks for having reported this bug.

Best Regards

Marc