GeoNames Forum

Hi!

First of all, I am very happy to have come across the GeoNames project. It is an awesome effort! Congratulations to all of you involved

We are working on a project that will, hopefully, use GeoNames. As such, I am eager to help GeoNames get better.

Doing some tests I came across two places that seems to have the wrong name. One is SoHo ( http://www.geonames.org/5138691/soho.html ). The place is named in GeoNames as "Soho, NYC, New York", but i think that the correct name should be "SoHo". The same happens with Midtown ( http://www.geonames.org/6619256/midtown-nyc-ny.html ). GeoNames names it "Midtown, NYC, NY" but I guess it should be "Midtown".

Could you please help me determine if my assumption is correct? If so, am I free to fix those mistakes? Thank you!

Alex Torrenegra
LetMeGo.com

Hi Alex

I think you are right, the combination of names seems exaggerated and should not be the main or short name. It could be listed as an alternate name.
Please feel free to correct errors like these ones.

Best

Marc

Thank you Marc! (Marc Wick?)

I will do so. I also have a few additional questions. I couldn't find answers about it in the manual. I guess that there may be other threads in the forums with the answers I am looking for. Please feel free to point to them if that is easier for whoever answers these questions

SoHo is currently listed under "University Village" ( http://ws.geonames.org/hierarchy?geonameId=5138691 ). That is an error. In reality, SoHo is just a place in Manhattan. Can I fix this?

In GeoNames there are two places called "Midtown" in Manhattan. In reality, there should be only one. Are there rules to determine which one should be deleted?

Midtown has a very nice article in Wikipedia, but GeoNames is not linked to it. Are there instructions somewhere in how to link them together?

Thank you!

Alexander Torrenegra
LetMeGo.com

Alexander

1. In the hierarchy webservice we have inlcuded realtions between PPL and PPLX (section of populated place). This relation has been automatically generated with reverse geocoding all PPLX and find the nearest PPL. This is far from perfect and not yet editable with the userinterface. Do you think 'University Village' is a PPL (a higher level concept than PPLX?

2. If we have to delete a duplicate we write in the comment the geonameId of the remaining toponym. We delete the newer toponym (higher geonameId) and/or the one with fewer other information. (alternate name etc)

3. The interlinking between wikipedia is automatically generated whenever we load and parse a new wikipedia dump. It is not yet possible to manually add links. It is possible that the algormatithm will pickup the article the next time we process the wikipedia dump.

Marc

Thank you Mark. My answers below:

marc wrote:

1. In the hierarchy webservice we have inlcuded realtions between PPL and PPLX (section of populated place). This relation has been automatically generated with reverse geocoding all PPLX and find the nearest PPL. This is far from perfect and not yet editable with the userinterface. Do you think 'University Village' is a PPL (a higher level concept than PPLX?

University Village is a set of buildings in the neighborhood of Greenwich Village in (New York County). SoHo is a neighborhood south of Greenwich Village (Greenwich Village is north of Houston Street, whereas SoHo is SOuth of HOuston - thus its name). In short, University Village (maybe a PPLX?) should be child of Greenwich Village (which doesn't seem to exist yet in GeoNames). Both Greenwich Village and SoHo (both PPLs?) should be children of New York County. I guess I can fix the later but not the former, right?

marc wrote:

2. If we have to delete a duplicate we write in the comment the geonameId of the remaining toponym. We delete the newer toponym (higher geonameId) and/or the one with fewer other information. (alternate name etc)

Thank you! I just fixed the Midtown toponyms

marc wrote:

3. The interlinking between wikipedia is automatically generated whenever we load and parse a new wikipedia dump. It is not yet possible to manually add links. It is possible that the algormatithm will pickup the article the next time we process the wikipedia dump.

Where can I find more information about the algorithm? Can we add the coordinates of the toponym to Wikipedia to help the algorithm on the next dump analysis?

Alexander Torrenegra
LetMeGo.com

Hi Alexander

For large cities like New York it could make sense to use an additional level. Two levels with only PPL and PPLX is probably not sufficient to model it properly. We have thought to use PPPL as a third level below PPLX.

So it would be New York City (PPL), Greenwich Village (PPLX) and University Village (PPPL).

The wikipedia algo is basically looking for nearby features of the same feature type and similar name. It is only looking at wikipedia articles with geocodes. Articles without geocodes will not be included.

Best

Marc

marc wrote:

For large cities like New York it could make sense to use an additional level. Two levels with only PPL and PPLX is probably not sufficient to model it properly. We have thought to use PPPL as a third level below PPLX.

So it would be New York City (PPL), Greenwich Village (PPLX) and University Village (PPPL).

Thank you Marc. New York County, also known as Manhattan, is part of New York City. The order may be then something like: US, New York (State - ADM1), New York City (ADM2), New York County (ADM3), Greenwich Village (PPL?), and University Village (PPLX). If you agree, I can try to fix it. Thank you!

marc wrote:

The wikipedia algo is basically looking for nearby features of the same feature type and similar name. It is only looking at wikipedia articles with geocodes. Articles without geocodes will not be included.

Thank you! We will then try to add geo-codes to Wikipedia whenever we can.

The problem is that nobody will search for New York as an administrative division, New York is a city for everybody even though it may strictly speaking be an administrative divison. For many countries we have solved this problem with having separate entries for the city and the admin division.

An other problem is that the adm2 level below state is 'county'. Why do you call 'New York County' = ADM3?

Marc

marc wrote:

The problem is that nobody will search for New York as an administrative division, New York is a city for everybody even though it may strictly speaking be an administrative divison. For many countries we have solved this problem with having separate entries for the city and the admin division.

Thank you Marc. Where can I find instructions in how to do this?

marc wrote:

An other problem is that the adm2 level below state is 'county'. Why do you call 'New York County' = ADM3?

Here is the structure:

United States

New York State is inside the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York

New York City is inside New York State http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City

Manhattan (also known as New York County) is inside New York City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan

Areas inside Manhattan as SoHo, Tribeca, etc.

Based on this structure, could you please help me figure out how they should be organized? Thank you!

Hi everybody! Since Marc seems to be busy, can anybody else help me out with my questions?

It is a tricky question.

As I understand it 'New York City' is something that encompasses the adm2 'New York County' etc, but it is below the adm1 (state) 'New York'.

The rather primitive feature code system is probably not powerful enough to reflect complex situations like this one. We cannot declare 'New York City' to be adm2 because it is not, it is not a county.

A similar problem exists for other metropolitan areas like 'Greater London'.

I don't know yet how so solve the problem and model the situation satisfactorily. It would be easy to come up with an all purpose data model that is able to deal with all kind of situations. This is not the point. The real trick is to keep it simple and easy to use.

Marc

Thank you Marc. I am confused. Why do counties have to be adm2? Are there rules that prohibit counties from being adm3, thus allowing New York City to be adm2? If so, could you please point me there?

Thank you!

There are no rules. I was just under the impression that this is what people in the US feel about counties. If we set some as adm2 and others as adm3 it will become pretty messy.

Marc

Thank you Marc. That is, in fact, the norm. I agree with you. We are now on the same page. In the future, as I get more familiar with GeoNames, I will go back to the New York City example and propose a solution to the issue, if any. For now, I will focus on whatever is common and easier for us to start helping!

Thank you!

marc wrote:

It is a tricky question.

As I understand it 'New York City' is something that encompasses the adm2 'New York County' etc, but it is below the adm1 (state) 'New York'.

The rather primitive feature code system is probably not powerful enough to reflect complex situations like this one. We cannot declare 'New York City' to be adm2 because it is not, it is not a county.

A similar problem exists for other metropolitan areas like 'Greater London'.

I don't know yet how so solve the problem and model the situation satisfactorily. It would be easy to come up with an all purpose data model that is able to deal with all kind of situations. This is not the point. The real trick is to keep it simple and easy to use.

Marc

On thing that maybe can be solved? -- The location "Manhattan" seems completely lost in the hierarchy. At least for now, would it not make sense to make "Manhattan" an entity underneath "New York County" or even "New York" (the city)?

Not certain, just wondering...

Manhattan is modeled as an alternate name to "New York County". It cannot be underneath it when it is the same entity.

Best

Marc